kireev: (Default)
[personal profile] kireev
Любопытный статистический обзор браков в США. Особенно мне понравились эти две карты: продолжительность первого и второго брака у женщин. То, что на Юге и брачность и разводимость выше - это уже хорошо известно. Но на Юге помимо этого еще и дольше продолжительность брака, особенно второго. На Западе она тоже выше, плюс выделяются блее сельские штаты. Это вполне объяснимо: в более традиционном, консервативном обществе институт брака сильнее. Россия тут не исключение: разводимость крайне низкая на Кавказе, а вообще ниже в почти всех республиках и на селе. Моя жена рассказывала, что в Китае разводы дело редкое, хотя тоже уровень разводимости растет из-за модернизации, но тем не менее, в сельских районах и немолодые пары как правило живут вместе даже не смотря на то, что в аналогичных условиях на Западе или в России уже давно бы развелись. Мучаются, но живут вместе: так положено. В Китае действительно уровень разводимости 1.85 на тысячу, в США 9.5. А еще в 1985 г. в Китае уровень был 0.4 на тысячу. Правда, новый закон, по которому можно свободно разводится без всяких бумажек от работодателя и соседей, был принят только 7 лет назад..


Date: 2012-02-07 07:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kireev.livejournal.com
Кажется, тут задело за живое :)

Date: 2012-02-07 07:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vladislav-01.livejournal.com
А Вы правда верите в то, что "модернизация" какая-то способна сама по себе привести к росту разводимости?

Date: 2012-02-07 07:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kireev.livejournal.com
Я думаю да. Если в одном обществе брак - это вообще не выбор, то когда такой выбор появлятся, причем на любых, даже не самых лучших для женщины условиях, разводы должны появиться.

Date: 2012-02-07 07:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vladislav-01.livejournal.com
=на любых, даже не самых лучших для женщины условиях, разводы должны появиться=

Чтобы это утверждать, нужно эксперимент провести: сделать, чтобы при разводе бывшая жена сваливала из семьи в трусах и тапочках и без детей.

Date: 2012-02-07 07:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kireev.livejournal.com
Такой подход нечестнен, хотя, если вычернуть "без детей", то разводы все равно появятся там, где они запрещены и факически запрещены.

Date: 2012-02-07 07:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vladislav-01.livejournal.com
Что здесь нечестного? Сейчас примерно так дело и обстоит в отношении мужчин: в трусах и тапочках и без детей, но с обязанностью платить алиментный оброк.

И результат: инициаторами разводов в 80% и более случаев являются женщины, т.к. им это выгодно.

Date: 2012-02-07 07:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kireev.livejournal.com
Ну, хорошо, можно и на абсолютно равных условиях с мужчинами, только все же у кого остается ребенок насколько я понимаю решает суд в таких случаях. Если в 80% случаев инициаторы - женщины, но все равно же минимум в 20% случаев разводы состоятся. Уверен, что при полном равенстве их будет меньше, но они точно будут.

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Date: 2012-02-07 07:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] argonix.livejournal.com
Он абсолютно прав.
Проблема современного общества и современных мужчин, что эти элементарные вещи им непонятны.

Чем сильнее в том или ином месте развит феминизм, тем хуже с семьёй и хуже с рождаемостью. Феминизм враг для нормального народа, страны, государства. Потворство феминизму — преступление против своей страны. Россия одна из госфеминистических стран кстати... То есть феминизм по факту законодательно закреплён...

Пожинать плоды осталось недолго, в ближайшие 10 лет нас ожидает обвал роджаемости с 1,7 миллиона детей в год, до 1,2 миллиона, что на самом деле катастрофа. И наступит она очень быстро. Ни какие школы детские сады, которые сейчас с таким энтузиазмом строят и открывают, скоро нафиг ни кому не будут нужны...

Date: 2012-02-07 07:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taki-net.livejournal.com
Сколько у Вас детей? Вы их воспитываете?

Date: 2012-02-07 07:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] argonix.livejournal.com
Более умного вопроса задать образования не хватает или ума? Вот почему люди, с университетским образованием, вроде Вас, живут по устоявшимся шаблонам как биороботы???

Date: 2012-02-07 08:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taki-net.livejournal.com
Спасибо, ИСЧЕРПЫВАЮЩИЙ ответ.

Date: 2012-02-07 08:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] argonix.livejournal.com
Пожалуйста. Какой вопрос, такой ответ...
Просто кучка людей умеет только такие тупые вопросы и задавать... На любую реплику мгновенный вопрос "Сколько у Вас детей?" Прям эпидемия.

Да какая разница? А? Какая разница?

И дети есть и внуки... я их всех люблю и они меня любят. НО какое это отношение к теме беседы имеет? Что за примитивизм?

Date: 2012-02-07 08:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taki-net.livejournal.com
Знаете, когда какой-то кекс орет зародинузасталина в атаку, всегда интересно, а он сам как предпочитает атаковать - на поле или в политотдельском блиндаже.

Значит, говорите, есть дети? Даже не один, да? Двое?

Тогда Вы можете рассказать, как ВАМ ЛИЧНО помешал "государственный феминизм" их родить, вырастить и воспитать. Ну? Беретесь?

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From: [identity profile] farnabazsatrap.livejournal.com
своими учениками, раскрывать их сетевые ники, если они пишут что-то неблагонамеренное по либеральным меркам , и выгонять их из школы.Русских ненавидит патологически.
Буйный феминист, но если речь об изнасиловании русской женщины кавказцем или
среднеазиатом, начинает доказывать, что "она всё врёт" .
По происхождению эта омерзительная гадина-то ли крымский татарин, то ли крымчак, женат на еврейке, чета истово предаётся диссиде и русофобии.
Ах, да-называет себя русским.
From: [identity profile] vladislav-01.livejournal.com
А, вот оно что... А я-то думаю, что это у него в ЖЖ за публика собирается, которая начинает неадекватно реагировать на слово "инородцы" или "иммигранты".
From: [identity profile] farnabazsatrap.livejournal.com
Ублюдок из продвинутой советской семейки, как вся диссида.
"Второй эшелон", подноменклатура.

Алмазыч о себе :

у меня была более чем образцовая семья: родители - члены Партии, карьеристы (в хорошем смысле слова), отец - офицер (военный ученый), дед - персональный пенсионер, с карьерой партийного аппаратчика, директора отделения Госбанка в южноукраинской области, а о его делах на Западной Украине я и сейчас не имею достаточного представления (ну, в СБУ, полагаю, имеют)

..............................................................

я, разумеется, уже на первом курсе был вполне готов юркнуть в кусты, как проводник отвернется. Помню, однажды мы с приятелем отодвинули похожую на остальные деревянную панель стены, и за ней открылась потайная лестница, ведущая в спецхран библиотеки 14-го этажа ГЗ (у приятеля была знакомая в том спецхране). Мы сидели за железным шкафом и читали газеты - советские газеты, всего-то 3-5-летней давности, но уже изъятые, часть уже объявленной несуществующей истории. Вот так ты можешь проходить мимо неприметной панели и не знать, что если ее отодвинуть - откроется лаз в ужасное. Надо инстинктивно держаться осевой - и тогда никогда не увидишь, какие люди рулят процессом за нарисованным занавесом, изображающим Советскую Науку.

Мне, видимо, крупно повезло: я числился слишком безобидным для того, чтобы мной занялись Органы напрямую, но уже перерос уровень комитета комсомола. Хотя - один раз меня из политической передряги (очень серьезного доноса) вытащил за уши очень достойный человек, профессор нашей кафедры и член Партии, имевший право присутствовать на рассмотрении комсомольского дела и запугавший членов курсового бюро до колик, так что они от меня отвязались. А тут я, к своему счастью, из универа ушел, забив на рекомендацию в аспирантуру (да она бы была зарублена в комсомоле, я так думаю).
(http://taki-net.livejournal.com/1098796.html)

Второй ЖЖ выродка :

http://al-soukhanov.livejournal.com/profile

Date: 2012-02-07 07:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kireev.livejournal.com
Ну так феминизм тоже выше там, где модернизация. Но невозможно же все разводы списать на феминисток.

Date: 2012-02-07 07:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] argonix.livejournal.com
Не модернизация причина феминизма. Причина феминизма — развал в головах. А развал в головах начинается там, где отходят от вековых традиций общества.

Date: 2012-02-07 07:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kireev.livejournal.com
А чем плохо отходить от вековых традиций общества? Точнее, одни традиции могут быть полезными, а другими объективно вредны для обещства. То, что какая-то традиция держится веками, но является само по себе доказательством ее полезности. Для кого-то и забивание камнями - традиция.

Date: 2012-02-07 07:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vladislav-01.livejournal.com
Что объективно полезного в разрушении института брака?

Date: 2012-02-07 07:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kireev.livejournal.com
Я разве о полезности института брака? Я о том, что нельзя отходить от вековых традиций.

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Date: 2012-02-07 07:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] argonix.livejournal.com
И что интересно, что по какой-то традиции вредные традиции остаются, а полезные традиции уничтожаются, и заменяются новыми вредными традициями... В результате чего мир катится в пропасть...

Например, отход от традиции, что мужчина является главой семьи, а развод со стороны женщины табуировался, сейчас приводит к тому, что через 100 лет нашей страны уже не будет... Вот и всё.

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Date: 2012-02-07 08:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] argonix.livejournal.com
>>> Для кого-то и забивание камнями - традиция.

В ряде случаев это хорошая традиция... особенно благотворно такая традиция влияет на женщин, ибо слов они часто не понимают...

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